SUNDAYS WITH SHAVEL
SUNDAYS WITH SHAVEL
Episode 1: A Tribute to Fathers
In observance of Father’s Day, this episode is dedicated to fathers across our nation and beyond. A brief history of father’s day in the United States is given in addition to some thoughts recognizing incarcerated fathers and formerly incarcerated fathers. I’m joined by two of my father friends who shared their perspectives about fatherhood and being a father. I express appreciation for my own father to conclude this tribute. Enjoy the show!
Helpful Resources
Decades After Mother Recognized, Father Finally Granted a Day: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19770618&id=c6orAAAAIBAJ&pg=6971,3560760
Father’s Day 2021: https://www.history.com/topics/holidays/fathers-day
Four Ways Incarcerated Fathers Can Help With Their Children’s Education: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/prisoner-resources/four-ways-incarcerated-fathers-can-help-with-their-childrens-education/
H. Res. 1274: https://www.congress.gov/110/bills/hres1274/BILLS-110hres1274ih.pdf
Incarcerated Parents: How to Cope When You Can’t Connect: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/prisoner-resources/incarcerate-parents-cope-when-you-cant-connect/
National Fatherhood Initiative: https://www.fatherhood.org/
Raising Children with a Parent in Prison: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/coping-incarceration-loved-one/raising-children-with-a-parent-in-prison/
The Modernization of Fatherhood: A Social & Political History (pp. 89-90): https://archive.org/details/modernizationoff00laro/page/89/mode/2up
The Modernization of Fatherhood: A Social & Political History (pp. 170-192): https://archive.org/details/modernizationoff00laro/page/170/mode/2up
The Monongah Coal Mine Disaster: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-monongah-coal-mine-disaster
The Monongah Mining Disaster, 1907: https://libcom.org/history/monongah-mining-disaster-1907-steven-johns
Credits
Host: Dr. Sherece Shavel
Theme Narration: Ronald Coaxum
Guest 1: U.S. Airforce Major (Ret.) Samuel Moore
Guest 2: Brian & Kumioa Mingo
Connect with me through email. Send messages to: ssinspiredcast@gmail.com
Welcome to Sundays with Chevelle a social work inspired podcast with creator and host Dr. Shariece Chevelle. This is a bi-monthly show where each episode aims to inspire topics relevant to social work practice, growing forward, living on purpose and so much more. Thank you for tuning in. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Greetings Sunday listeners. I am your host, Dr. Shariece Chevelle. Thank you so much for tuning in. I welcome you to episode one, a tribute to fathers today is father's day, and I dedicate this episode to fathers across our nation and beyond. I truly appreciate the role that fathers play in the life of the family and particularly the strength of African-American fathers here in the United States. So for this episode, I called upon some father friends to share their perspective on fatherhood and being a father. But first I want to briefly share what I discovered about the history of father's day here in the United States and give a few thoughts about those fathers whose fathering is often devalued, discredited dismissed, or in other words, qualified as inferior let's get started. Okay. Okay. I don't know about you, but I don't know. All there is to know about the origin of father's day. I was aware of somethings and knew there was more to be learned. So to prepare for today's episode, I went on a hunt for details about father's day, and I particularly wanted to know what I didn't already know here is what I found. Now. Some things I already knew such as father's day becoming an official permanent national holiday in 1972 because of president Nixon signing it into law. I knew that father's day became a hot interest after mother's day became a recognized holiday in 1914, when president Wilson signed it into law, I also knew that father's day was to be observed the third Sunday of June. Here's what I did not know. I did not know that the push for an efficient day to honor father started in Western Virginia. Did you know that? I learned that on December 6th, 1907, a massive coal mine explosion occurred in Marion county, West Virginia, that killed 360 plus men, 200 of those males. When were fathers, they identified as fathers. And so this is known as the manana mining disaster associated with Fairmont coal company. It is said that the worst mining disaster in American history was this mining explosion resulted in over 1000 children living without their father and a father's day service was organized and hosted by local church to honor the fathers killed in this mining explosion. Now this event happened on June 5th, 1908, fast forward to may of 1907. And you have this woman by the name, name of Sonora, Louise smart dad sitting in a mother's day church service hearing about the work of Anna Jarvis, who was instrumental in establishing the observance of a mother's day after hearing the sermon. So Nora is like, wait, what about fathers? So she, it goes to the pastor and pitches to him. Why fathers need to have a similar day of observed some things to note about the Nora that I learned was that she had and is living without her mother due to death, resulting from complications of childbirth. As I understand it at this time, now her father civil war veteran, William Jackson, smart, was left to raise her and her five siblings alone. And I can imagine is sitting in that chart service, thinking about how awesome her father is after suffering such tragedy, then having to care for her and her five siblings alone. I can only imagine that's the Nora was thinking that her father deserved just as much honor and celebration as the mother's was received. So as the story goes the past or decides to work with Sonora to do something to honor fathers, Nora wanted this event to happen on her father's birthday, which was June 5th, but because the past I needed more time, it happened the third Sunday of June in 1910 at the local Y YMCA. So that gives you a little bit of insight as to maybe why we are having father's day the third, Sunday in June, as opposed to any other time. Interesting. Anyway, since 1910, the Northern we smart dad and others campaign to have a father's day over the course of time states and locales began to take up observance of that day. So for those of you listening, who are social workers, it's noted that Jane Adams pushed for a father's day in Chicago. She did this in 1911, but she was not successful. Her efforts were rejected, but no that she also was part of this campaigning for a father. It's quite interesting. So idea of having a father's day was not only rejected by Chicago. It was rejected in large part by the public, the public perceived it to be a commercial money-making scheme and it just became political. And interestingly, so there's a scholar who gave an interesting thought about that time and, um, scholar, Ralph LaRoza noted in his book book that for this particular time, it was both a politics of ideas and a politics of the person, which I think that particular summation is, is good in his 19 70, 19 97 book is where you can find it. The name of the book is the modernization of fatherhood. And I have added some information about that in the show notes. So you are welcome to take a look despite commercialization of having a father's day of observance. The day finally received recognition as a national holiday in 1972 in 2008. And so some of you may already know this. So Nora Louise smart Dodd was commended by the 110th Congress with a house resolution. And that's how the resolution 1274. You can also find that in the show notes. Well, this house resolution reads committed and things to Nora smart dot for her contribution and recognizing the importance of father's day and recognizing the important role fathers play in our family's awesome father's day is a great day, but I have to say, I am one who believes that a day is not enough. One day is just not enough to celebrate others really more than one day. I have one birthday in the month that my birthday comes around and my birthday is at the end of the month. So the month of my birthday comes around that first day, the first of the month, I'm celebrating. It's like Jubilee. I am celebrating the entire month, but that also doesn't mean that father's day should be father's month. What I mean is we need to be in habit of recognizing our fathers regularly. And so it's great to have a day, but make sure you're not holding out on showing appreciation and expressing your love until that one day. You want to do it more regularly. You want to do it as often as you can. When you think about it, you want to appreciate and celebrate and honor fathers. So with that being said, Juneteenth signed into law as a permanent national holiday, just a couple of days ago. And so now we have father's day in June, teeth, observance and celebration marking the significance of June on the calendar. We thought of June as father's day, month now it's father's day and freedom up. I'm just excited. I'm excited about fathers to be celebrated, not only today, but again, we need to celebrate them. Okay. Or several types of fathers that exist in the world. There are biological fathers, grandfathers, stepfathers, godfathers, divorced fathers, single fathers, teen fathers, military fathers, and the list go on. Fathers are classified in this way, helping us understand their position. But then we also ascribe qualifiers like good, active, absent, broke, present. Awesome. That beat wise hard work and playful, lazy, strong. The list goes on. We are socially attuned at using qualifiers, which helps us to not only understand their position in some way, but to decide how we relate to them. Now, there is a type of father that I did not mention whose position as well as whose qualifier is often devalued dismissed and thought of as inferior worthless. I'm talking about incarcerated and formerly incarcerated fathers incarcerated and formerly incarcerated fathers are a type whose position is compromised and who habitually endure assaults to their father and capacity, both intention and effort. These fathers confront mountain sized obstacles around father, and that is likely to be an excess hindrance to their ability, to restore, establish, and maintain meaningful relationships with their children, overshadowed by their mistakes. The worth of their father and expression is often assumed in the worst light. And any efforts to connect are often they're often regarded as a nuisance. My experience working with formerly incarcerated fathers, incarcerated fathers, it has convinced me that these fathers are valuable and their desire to connect with their children is in no way a nuisance. So in honor, of father's day, I paid tribute with this podcast to incarcerated and formerly incarcerated fathers. I celebrate you today. I remember you today. I also want you Sunday listeners to act in support of these fathers. Now keep in mind that support. Can't just be held to one day out of 365 days a year. Although the motivation is coming due to this one day father's day, it is important that your support is ongoing. And I make this call to action because I recognized how important it is for formerly incarcerated and incarcerated fathers to receive the support of those who care. So if you know an incarcerated father and you are inclined to support this observance of father's day, I ask that you remember that incarcerated father. Now I'm not asking that you just think about the person or take pity in their situation. I ask that you find a way to support them as a father. Now sending a father's day card is nice, but is it useful? For instance, you can help a father keep up with his children by helping him keep up with his children's education. And you can do that by sending him a copy of a book. The child is reading at school. He can then engage the child around whatever that child is learning. And, and then something similar can also be done if the child has a hobby or, or any other interests, whether it be sports or art or dance or whatever, there are other ideas to consider. And I have included them in the show notes. So I encourage you to take a look at that list and consider one of the ways to support that incarcerated father. You know, if you know a formerly incarcerated father, the list ideas also can be helpful. It might be a need to adjust a little bit, but the list altogether is still useful ideas. If you are, are caring for a child whose father is incarcerated or formerly incarcerated. And if your tendency is to create barriers to connection, I ask that you choose to avoid hindering the father's connection to them, that child. Now it may require some effort on your part to move away from what you tend to do or what you tend to say, but make room to allow that father and that child to connect, to build relationship, to build the kind of connection that a father and a child needs in order for that child to have a healthy process of development. If you are a child whose father is incarcerated or formerly incarcerated, I encourage you to either start or to continue developing your relationship with your father. I don't know what it will mean for you to start or to develop that relationship. But by all means, if you have the desire I encourage you to do so and feel free to reach out to someone who will support you in developing that relationship with your father. If you're not sure, talk to someone and become sure, I'm sure that having a relationship with your father is all the more meaningful than not having a relationship with your father. So I encourage you to take action. Now, some may not appreciate these thoughts I'm sharing right now, maybe because of the perception held about incarcerated and formerly incarcerated fathers. Now I'm not dimming. I'm not dismissing the fact that these fathers have violated our social norms by carrying out some criminal act, but rather I'm highlighting the fact that incarcerated and formerly incarcerated fathers matter. And, and they are capable of both loving and building healthy, meaningful relationships with their children. Look around. You'll see many of these men who have an are maintaining healthy, meaningful relationships with their children, and that is worth all the celebration it can get. So we, so we have to honor these fathers and doing so does not mean they are no longer accountable for their actions. They are fathers of what you think or how you feel. They are fathers. They come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and colors with their unique personalities and ways of expression and interesting experiences. They are fathers. So on this day held in observance of fathers. I salute you incarcerated father. I salute you formerly incarcerated father. As you grow in love and express that love to your children, it will go deeper and farther than you will ever know. Keep growing. In honor of father's day, I asked some friends to join me and share their thoughts about fatherhood and being a father. These interviews were previously recorded separately. My first guest is my friend U S air force major retired Samuel Moore. He is a father of two and grandfather of two. My second guest is a couple Bryant and Kamora Mingo Kamaya, and I have been friends for over 15 years. So I'm excited to have her on the show. This husband and wife team are happily married with two children. Both of my guests have similar perspectives. If you are a father, think about your own perspectives about fatherhood and being a father. Consider your own response to each question. As you listen to these friends of mine, speak Sam, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining in today. How are you?
Speaker 3:I am doing awesome. And thank you for inviting me and thank you very much for even considering me to be a part of your show having so, so grateful and thankful. Thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. I absolutely thought about you. Um, for sure. So the show is a tribute to fatherhood, for sure. You know that, and I know that you are a father.
Speaker 3:Yes. I have a daughter, my daughter, she's 32 and my son and he's 26.
Speaker 2:So you've been a father for more than 30 years. So you are definitely someone who has some perspective on fatherhood.
Speaker 3:Oh, why thank you. I try.
Speaker 2:So I want to take you back a little bit. Okay. I want to take you back and I want to know what was it like for you to transition from not being a father to being a father. Now I know you have to think back sometimes. Hmm. You know, what was it like for you to transition, to make that transition transition from not being a father to being,
Speaker 3:I would say for me the transition, wasn't that hard that's because I'm an older brother and I have two younger brothers, so I kind of helped bring them up. Not that my father wasn't around my father was always around, but I was all there helping and seeing what did to help us. So by watching my father and by me helping me bring my brothers up when it was my turn, when I had my kids, that transition wasn't that hard, but it was more responsibility because it was just me. I'd wanted to make sure that my kids, um, had a good life. Um, I was in the military to travel the world and I took them with me. So, uh, it was quite, um, I experienced being a father to make sure that they acclimated to all the changes. So
Speaker 2:You mentioned you were in the military. So talk to me a little bit about being a military father. What, what was that like?
Speaker 3:Well, that is the mapping. Um, cause we moved every couple of years and then, um, I had to deploy, um, in the Saudi Arabia a couple of times and Germany and Italy and a lot of different places. So as I was gone, you know, there was still at home with their mother and, um, but I still had a father, you know, it was one of those things. When you get in trouble, I'm going to tell your dad on you. So I'm out there in the middle of the desert saying, Hey, you need to do your homework, you know, but I was always there for them. You just got a couple of creative ways. Um, as, as time as technology progressed, um, uh, I always made sure that we did a video conference or something that I saw them and made sure that, uh, they knew I was a part of their lives and that, that they would still get in trouble even though I wasn't there. This gotta to say, you wait till I get back home.
Speaker 2:So for your children growing up, did they spend a lot of time talking to you about, you know, being a dad and then also your military career being excited about that or being curious about that at all?
Speaker 3:Yes. Um, I did find out from, especially my daughter, she's the older one. Um, she got to the position where she actually liked moving around every couple of years cause she got to the, um, where she liked meeting new people. Um, also, so, um, she talked to me about that, that she enjoyed the military lifestyle. And then when my son came along, he actually did enjoy going to the different places. Um, we actually lived in Hawaii for several years of my son. He loved that. So my daughter, she was in college and because she was in college and I was in Hawaii, they consider Hawaii, um, separated from the actual United States. But the military is big on, on family. Um, they will saying my daughter to see me in Hawaii once a year for free on the government dime. So she loved that. So part, so it has going back to the two fathers. He's like, I'm going to Hawaii to see my dad and the government paid for it. So, you know, so all of the kids used to like that too. And uh, my son, he lived there, he wasn't in school. He went through high school there and he loved growing up in Hawaii. So that helps them when you bring in a new father here because I was a father who was able to travel with me and, um, they, they got respect for them.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I can only imagine. Um, I was always curious about my own dad's career in the military growing up and I, I didn't have the opportunities that you just shared with you with me that your children had, but I was always curious about his job and his rose and what he did, and even, you know, beyond military interests in when he transitioned. And, um, you know, what I know of more is him going and being a postal worker, postal service worker. And I was always curious about that and what his life was like doing that work. So I think naturally children are curious about their fathers work, their career, what they're doing and how they can learn more about it. And you know, how cool is it that their dad is doing this, that and the other. So I can only imagine how exciting it was for your own children, you being in the military and the air force more specifically, and being able to share that with your children. So that, that is
Speaker 3:Awesome. The kids love that. Cause we've moved several places. I just mentioned a why, but we moved to California and we lived in the south, in South Carolina, we lived in Oklahoma. We lived in Texas and my daughter, she was born there in Texas, but with her growing up and moving around, she took enjoyment out of moving around, also in meeting new and different people. So that was real good. Cause it comes back to the father. Cause she always say I moved around because of my dad
Speaker 2:And my son. So that brings me to another question that I would like for you to share about in, in your opinion, what does it mean to be a father growing
Speaker 3:Up with my father in my home and then transitioning to the military, they'd be a family. Uh, what it means to me to be a father, to be responsible and traps or rear or bring your kids up so they could be successful and I'm wanting to bring them up and rear them up. So they gain be more successful than myself. So what does it mean to be a father is to, to raise your kids, to bring them up with proper manners and to set them up for success and let them follow so they could follow their dreams. One thing I always tell them that they have the whole world who I tell them now they've got the whole universe in they hand and I would like to set them for success so they could follow their dreams to do whatever they want to become. So that's what fatherhood means to me is the weirdo. So they could be successful and be whatever they want to be.
Speaker 2:Did this meaning to you that it changed over time? Meaning at the start of your fathering life? Was it one perspective and then over time, your perspective changed or expanded or?
Speaker 3:Yes. So now, so now my kids have kids, so I'm a grandfather. Um, my son has a daughter. My son has a border and my daughter has a son. I'm lucky. I got one of everything, one son, one daughter and grandson, one granddaughter. But as we're growing up, you know, that's, the kids are growing up. You have them where you tell them, um, where you ask them to do things, you know, locally in your room. They'll do this, they'll do that, go to the store for me. But as they get older and teenage years into their adulthood, your fatherhood changed from more of being you're their father, but you become more real advisors has to say, you know, you don't tell them to go do this. You say, you know, I think you should do this. It's up to you if you're going to follow my advice or not. So the role does change from being a father, father figure as to a father advisor figure. So yes, it does change, but I think that actually grows, grows. Um, the relationship between your children and your father, um, closer and as they get kids. And I'm sure you always heard this old quote because they're saying that now with their CS, I've started to sound more like my parents. So I guess that's a good thing. That's common as you, as you get older, you
Speaker 2:Start to hear that more and more. Well, I know you have a lot of experiences with being a father. Can you think of one right now that you hold near and dear, whether it's an experience with your daughter or your son, do you have an experience that you hold near and dear?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I actually haven't found several. Um, but the one I want to say is, um, actually helping them grow up and letting them learn the things of life. What I mean by that I hold near and dear teaching them how to ride a bike. Um, teaching them how to dry. I'm teaching them little things of one to the store and learning how to shop and also spending time together of doing homework, you know, helping them with their homework in math. And they're seeing that, I guess that my answers are right when they go to school to set up that they come back and say, Hey, you know, that was right. But there's those things like that, that I took a lot of pride in that I hold near and dear, because those are good times. And, um, you know, you only learn, they only learn how to ride a bike once they only learn to drive once you know, their driver's license. You know, I remember, um, both on son and daughter at different times, especially my daughter. I was asleep on a Saturday and she I'm waking me up and said, dad, I think I'm ready. Let's go get my driver's license. And you know, so that's a memory, that's your memory will remember for the rest of her license saying, well, my son,
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Um, I'm sitting here thinking back now to that time for me. And, uh, it was quite stressful. It definitely was stressful. So needing to have your dad there to support you and to help you along and to help ease some of the frustration and anxiety around that driver's license or even taking the driver's license test is, is definitely important. So I appreciate you bringing that out. That kind of brought back some memories for me. There you go. You and I talk often and we talk about a lot of things, not always obviously, related to being a father or being a parent, so to speak, but for the sake of our conversation today, we recently shared some comments about a movie by the name of fences that had several scenes in it related to fathering. And as we speak there, there w there is a colorful conversation or discussion happening right now on social media about this particular movie and its portrayal of fathering. And I have to get your thoughts on, uh, the, the one clip where the son came and he was supposed to do some chores and he didn't get his chores done at the time that he was supposed to get them. And, you know, he ended up transitioning to this conversation about buying a TV and there was this talk about$200 and what you can do with$200. And then he asked his dad, well, you know, why don't you like me? And you know, this whole scene was quite interesting, but this one scene is sparking a lot of conversation. So I have to ask you about this one scene and what you think about it with regard to fathering in your opinion, that scene or that movie as a whole, would you say it portrays what it means to be a father or the responsibility of fathering? How would you characterize this movie with regard to bothering?
Speaker 3:So, um, the spit it out, they're talking about movie fences where you Denzel you did an excellent job acting there and his son, I don't remember the actor there. I think it was a point of tough love. So I'm going to talk about what you're talking about, the actual scene and then high interpreted it and go a little bit further than that. So actually the scene is this Denzel, he just tried to show the son that his son asked him, why don't you like me? And I think that was just a way of Denzel showing him that. Does he like him? He doesn't really like him. Yes. He love him. Why does he love him? Because he go to work every single day. He makes sure that he has a roof over his head. He makes sure he got food and stuff. He said, he made sure he got clothes on his back. You know, that's not like that's love, but that's just a different way of showing them. You're showing me tough love. You hear that all the time. So that's what that scene was about. So then they were talking about the television, you know, the young young man, you know, he said, Hey, let's get a TV for$200. And then the fat and the father Denzel said, you know what? I see, I see a roof that needs to be repaired. And he said, because this rift don't get repaired. The whole house is going to come down. And the young young man was saying, you know, well, why don't we just pay it off a little bit at a time? So this is another teacher moment. Then Zelle was saying, pay it up a little at a time. No, don't do that. Save your money and get it all at one time. So where I'm going with this, the top button of the future. Perfect example, when I was saying that, um, I sounded more like my father. I think that was a very good teaching moment in that movie of tough love could, because I could see in the future when the son has kids, he's going to go through that same thing. And you're going to say, save your money. Now this is a son. Tell him to his kids to be grandkids, save you, buy something off at the same time and do something that is going to be more beneficial at that time as a repair on the roof, as opposed to getting a TV. So that teaching moment is not only good at that moment there with his son, but it's going to go to his grandkids and to his great grandkids. That thing that was actually an excellent piece is just done a different way and just a tough love moment, but definitely a life learning moment. So I thought it was in very good teaching moment of life of father. So I appreciate
Speaker 2:You for saying that because I definitely find that the significant role that a father plays is to help the family prioritize needs and wants. And I, and I think that that particular clip of the movie portraying that what is a one, what is the need? And we have to prioritize, we hit it's that it's, that need to hold tight to whatever the responsibility is. And I think that lesson was about responsibility. And it's interesting that you mentioned this idea of love, because I don't believe in that particular clip, the idea of love came forward as to say he, he uses the term love.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Cause he's at that time with dad, but it, that it was, it was implied.
Speaker 2:It was implied, but the way that it seemed to the way I understand it, what was being put forward more was this idea of responsibility. Yes.
Speaker 3:And that's turned into the young man to a man because as a man, you have some responsibility to take care of your son. Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's how I understood it as well. And I did appreciate that particular clip, but I also recognize that there are those who find that the delivery that was in that particular clip was not positive. It was negative. It was degrading. It was, you know, overall it lacked that demonstration of, I love you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, his delivery, it was, it was tough. And what I said, I mentioned earlier, it was tough love, and that's what it was. And you know, some people have tough love. And I think everybody, every parent, every that goes through experience where you have to give tough love. So it's not going to be, you know, ice cream with cherry cherry on top of it, you know, you gotta be tough about it. And in that moment also, he was so on how to change a young man into a man, man, or a boy to a man. And that's what the responsibility was about also. So you have to be tough. So yeah, some people are feathers would probably ruffled the wrong way, but in the end, I think it's probably best for the young young man. Cause I think it was just that same, but I think there is occasions where every dad has to show tough love, you know, and that's what he was doing, that he was showing, showing tough love. And so, you know what it takes to dab responsibility, but it takes to be a father. And that's what he was saying. You know, I'm your father, you know, and it is my responsibility to do this. And that was translating to when you become a father, it's your responsibility to take care of your kids. So there's going to be times when you might not like your kids, that's what he was saying, but he's still gonna, you know, have to take care of, you know, and set them up for success. So I think it was, uh, a good portrayal. I think his, um, lifelike, you know, everyone might not do it in that situation, but I think there is a situation that will come along where people will show tough love and it will come out the same way. Like can a father, you know, he has a very significant gift figure and young men and young women, you were talking about that clip when, um, I saw another clip when, uh, it was actually the talk show of Steve Harvey and he was asking a question and the lady was saying that she remarried, but her son was acting out all the time. And Steve Harvey, he said, you know, he's not a professional, but he's a mentor. And he seen this before. He said, the reason the young man was acting out all the time because the relationship that he has with his original data stream, and then the lady said that was correct. So, you know, the father plays an important role in young man's life. Well then it would be productive citizens in the future. So it was very, very, very important in my, my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I have to agree with you fathers definitely play, uh, an important role and, you know, without fathers, I, I can't even imagine, you know, where we would be just as, you know, humanity as human beings on the earth, we need fathers and we definitely need to do more to celebrate our fathers that are in our communities, our fathers that are in our neighborhoods, the fathers that we have connection and relationship with, we need to make sure that we spend quality time encouraging, inspiring as well as celebrating our father. So with that being said, I want to celebrate you right now and just say, thank you so much for being the father that you are for doing the work that you did over the years to raise your children and to help them get on the path that they need to get on in order for them to be successful. It's so important that you as a father were present in your kids' lives and that they know that you are present and that they know that they could count on you for whatever the reasoning was. And you were always there. So I just want to say thank you to you because other, you being a father, it definitely helped to build community our sons and our daughters make up the community and the neighborhoods that we live in. And the more that we have strong, uh, fathers raising children and, and ring them up from the perspective of strong men and women empowerment and women, responsible men, men, and women in growing into being mature men and women, it only helps to make our communities and our neighborhoods all the more better. So I just want to say, thank you for being a good father and continuing even now, although your kids are grown and they're out on their own thing, you know, you're still being who you need to be as a father in this period of, in this stage of your life. And then of course you have your grandchildren, which I know for sure that you're pouring into their lives in a significant way. So I just want to say, thank you. I celebrate you. You, you are a good father and I thank you so much for joining me today and taking out some time to share with me your perspective on fathering and also sharing a little bit of your experiences as well. Not just with me, but also with my Sunday listeners. We thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm honored where you even think of me to be part of your podcast. So thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. And I just hope that you will come back and join us another time. Can I count on you for that?
Speaker 3:Most definitely. I would call it and watch you interview someone else. You didn't quite get that.
Speaker 2:Come back and join me another time. And maybe we could talk about some other interesting topics.
Speaker 3:Yes, I would love to. Awesome.
Speaker 2:I like it. All right, Sam. Well, you enjoy the rest of your day and we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 3:All right. Sounds great. You have a great day.
Speaker 2:I have with me, my dear friend[inaudible] and her husband, Brian, I'm so excited to have them. And I particularly wanted to have Brian on the show, because again, this episode is all about celebrating father's and he is an African-American father. And I wanted him to come and talk a little bit, share a little bit about his father experience and maybe some perspective on what it means to be a father. So Kamaya and Brian, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us so much
Speaker 2:For taking the time to come and visit with us. So Brian, you are an African-American father. I'm so excited that you decided to come and share with us today and you have a tube. Yes.
Speaker 3:And I am. I thank you for even highlighting African-American debts that is oftentimes overlooked in our communities. So I appreciate that. And yes, two beautiful children, one grown, grown shout, and one young.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So you say one grown child has grown
Speaker 3:19, maybe 2011 going on 12. Yes.
Speaker 2:Time flies by. So obviously you haven't always been a father. So talk to us about what it was like for you to transition from not being a father to being
Speaker 3:Well, one for the most part is consistently putting selfishness aside, you know, um, as a single person, a single father, a single man, you know, a lot of times it's based off of what I want, what I want to do, where I want to go. And I honestly, um, I tell him this all the time, my kids saved my life and I can't put it any other way than that. And I tell them that they, they saved my life. I will, I don't know where I would be without my kids being in my life. They bring a new perspective. I mean, I would say anyone, man, that doesn't have a child, you know, that's the biggest representation of God is especially being an operating room. It changes everything for me. So, um, from not being a father to being a father, I would say selfishness, we gotta put that aside. Oh man, you begin to really live through your children. I lived through my children all the time. They keep me young. They keep me alive. They keep me well, if I'm working out with them, exercising with them, playing with them, everything changes. Fatherhood comes into play. To be honest with you, it's never a dull moment. I don't look at me time anymore. Their time is my time. When you want to be a father that excites you so much, children excites me. They bring a new level to my life. You know, even if we were married, no children. I think man, the state young to stay energetic is hard too. When you don't have children, it's kind of it's blend now for me. So I think that's the biggest difference. Not being selfish and actually thinking and considering our children in everything I do.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. That's awesome. And I do appreciate you for highlighting that, you know, need to be selfless when it comes to taking care of children and being responsible for children. And that's, to me, I think is really critical, is really key. So what are some of your fondest memories over the last 19 years let's say of, of experiencing fatherhood. Do you have any, any favorite memories? I have
Speaker 3:A problem in that area and it is very difficult for me. I'm a little different because all my time is valuable. Every moment with my families is no greater moment than last. So it was very hard for me to highlight one area that I'm like, this is like the moment, you know, it seems like I could give moments of transitioning where it's a highlight, but then it's doing it just this justice to the moments before then the little things add up to the big thing. So I can't dismiss any small moments to highlight a big moment. I mean, I have goals for my family. I wanted passports for, so at the post office getting actually getting the passport, I was like a little overly excited maybe on pouring through me because it was a goal that I actually had for my family to actually get passports going on vacation with my family. That's always been a big dream and goal of mine as a young person, without a family or children, helping my son get a car, teaching my daughter, how to drive early, but then playing Barbie dolls with my daughters. I can't dismiss that, you know, on, so it's hard to really highlight one area over the next because all my time with my family was very valuable. We should be like, that piece should be home away from the world, my town, with my families at every moment. There's no special moment over the other one is very, that question was hard. It was.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I can appreciate that. I appreciate definitely all that you have shared because I, I do agree that time with family is definitely valuable and it's not something that you can put a price tag on it or, um, it's like those forever memories and perish them for, you know, the lifetime. So I do appreciate,
Speaker 3:And I'll give an example on that really quick. For instance, like we, we used to go on vacations and those are big, but then there's moments that my daughter will be like, daddy, let's go. I want to ride my bike around the corner, you know? And I don't feel like going, but I do it anyway. And then after I do it, I feel amazing and I feel better. I feel energetic. And I thank her for that. I say, listen, and I verbally tell her that because I think that's important. And I'll tell her, thank you for getting me up and walking with you while you ride your bike around the corner. Those moments like that can be overlooked when my body felt better than it did when I said I didn't feel like it. So that's what I mean by highlighting something like a vacation over moments like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And when I'm listening to you, I hear you say strength and sacrifice. That's what I'm getting out of what you're saying. And that, that means a lot just to have strength, but your strength is not coming from your physical, your physical ability or capacity it's strength. And you sacrificing your time, sacrificing your effort towards someone else's benefit. And I think that is so profound and so significant when it comes to just life in itself and the value of life in itself. So this kind of brings me to another question that I would love to ask you. And that is about fathering in today's world and today's culture does what our culture it represents today. Does that make fathering even the more necessary for you or even the more meaningful or valuable to you or does that not even matter? It's the, the role, it's the duty, it's the love, it's the sacrifice. It's the, the desire, the desire within to be who you need to be for your children? What, what do you say or what, what is there that you think should be said about being a father? And
Speaker 3:I would, um, unfortunately I don't really like the word culture. It puts us in a box that we tend to want to live up to. That is a false narrative. I am culture, everything within me. And it may not coincide with how you may feel, how you may raise your child. Or I think fatherhood is regardless of cultural or religion or race is fatherhood. And when we begin to just say that it's important to raise your children based off of your mistakes and enlighten them and let them know you're not perfect. And I make mistakes, I'm making mistakes with my children. I apologize to my children of my mistakes to them. I think that's important. Um, I speak to them. What do you think I did wrong? Um, and then we can talk about that and I can talk about how certain things made me angry versus things that they made them angry or upset about me. So raising them culture just in the world today is difficult. We in a difficult space right now, I just try to raise them to respect everybody because I respect everybody. I respect them. And I demonstrate that by when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And I apologize to them for that. That's me showing them respect, no matter the age, color, creed, it doesn't matter. Religion. I raised them up to respect everybody doesn't matter. And how I see that is if I don't show them respect, how can I raise them and teach them to respect people and everyone, when I might do something wrong with them, or I might upset them. And if I'm older or I'm your elder, it doesn't matter. Kind of do. As I say, not as I do that, doesn't apply in this household. I got to lead by example, meaning if I do something wrong is wrong is not do. As I say, not as I do. I can't sit back and do something and expect you not to do it. I have to lead by example, if I do you wrong and I have to apologize to you, I have to stand for as a man to apologize to you and say, Hey, I was wrong and how can I get it? Right? You got to any bridge, you burn, any mistakes you make is your job to now fix it. As parents, as a father, I can't raise my daughter to look for a man that doesn't do anything less than what I'm doing. So to raise up, to follow a man or be with a man that can apologize to his children or apologize to anyone that is all he is less than him is, is not right. So that's the way I try to raise them regardless of the environment or space that we in, respect everyone at every time, wrong is wrong. If you wrong, apologize, you know, that's how you grow. And you can learn from that regardless of the culture. I think that's how you develop your culture and what your legacy will be and how you will be seen in how your grandkids and great grandkids will be able to look up to you and see you in certain.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate your answer and I, and I appreciate your, the perspective that you bring as a father. And I, I, I recognize that culture is definitely a topic of, um, hot discussion. And it is one is just thinking about culture as a whole, because there are subcultures. And even as a father, no one father, parents or fathers the same. And so I appreciate you for just making mention of the fact of the diversity and just being a father and just being a man or just being, you know, someone who is taking up that responsibility for their children or for their family as a whole. But what blared out to me in your talk was being an example. And I think that is something important to take away from this discussion, being an example. And I think fathers can be great examples for their children and I, and in my experience, children look to their fathers and seek example from their fathers. So the fact that I hear you saying that something that you intentionally purposefully do as a father, as you exercise your role and your responsibility as a father, you seek to be that example. I think that's great because that's, that's a game changer,
Speaker 3:One culture to beat any the excuse because I'm a black man, but there's, I could come across a white man and should he use his culture as an excuse for something that might be wrong? It shouldn't be a barrier how we raising our children as fathers. Um, and specifically African-American fathers is less go beyond that. Now let's, let's look beyond that. Just don't treat anybody different, you know, and that can change our, even our neighborhoods, right? And then they B they can transition from a neighborhood to a community.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But that's that, that's what I meant by your point of being an example, because you, you, because you have, you know, thinking about the fact that, you know, there are fathers who are biological, you know, biological fathers, then you have fathers, then you have social fathers and this, this idea of father can be quite broad. And so if you think of father and you put this idea of, you know, fathers intentionally and purposefully being an example to children, then when I say that's a game changer, I mean, that's a game changer for not only the family unit, but for the neighborhood, for the community, for the city, for the state, for the country, for beyond, and that's the power of fathers. And so you're basically bringing out what I think is in, is important to note about fathers. As we celebrate fathers in this day of observing fathers, I think it's something to bring out and to point out. So you, you literally have pointed out several critical facts that I thought that I think is really important to highlight, especially today, but not just today and, you know, celebrating fathers. Shouldn't just be one day. It's an every day thing that we need to do. We need to begin to develop a habit to appreciate everyone, hopefully those who are taken up that mantle to raise the next generation. So I kudos to you kudos to you. Thank you so much for your strength and your strong, um, uh, conviction of being a father and doing the very thing that your heart desires to do, which is to love your children and to take care of them in the best way that you possibly can. And it's all good. And I appreciate, I appreciate that for sure. So since this is celebration time, you know, for fathers, this is the day that has been observed for fathers to celebrate them. What, what is the celebration going to look like for you? What are you doing today? What are, what are, where are you going? What's happening? What's the celebrate
Speaker 3:In my house. Father's day is every day. So my work for father's day and for father's day weekend, my daughter really wanted me to spend some time with them instead of working. So they're going to be taking me away to the beach she wants to take me to. So that's what we are allowing her to do. And she's very thoughtful. My kids are pretty thoughtful. I try to explain to them a father's day is every day they are. They're my gift. They're my life saver. They are my gift. So every day I get to spend with them, um, I'm good with that. So anything extra is over the top for me. And I explained to them, they know that my daughter gave me a couple months ago. She put a dollar in an envelope and gave it to me and wrote, please keep it because she is very hard for me to keep that type of stuff. But again, every little thing, you know,
Speaker 2:Awesome. So Kamora is here. I would love to hear what you would like to share. Is there anything that you want to add to what your husband has already said about him being a father or about your appreciation of him as a father? What, what is it that you say? Well, one of the main
Speaker 3:Things that I appreciate about Brian is as being a father is his consistency. Uh, one thing I can say is he's consistent when he promises our children things, and it's not so much of material things, it can be something basic. Like he said, as far as our daughter want to go ride her bike and she'll ask you, he'll say, yeah, you know, I'll take it and he'll go, no matter how he feels, how tired he is. So he's consistent, even with our son, the same stuff, when it comes to exercising, he'll say, Hey, there's, you know, one play football, you know, let's go workout. So when it comes to that, he'll say we can do that and they'll do that. And he tells him, you know, listen, if you want to be great, you have to stick to it. You have to be consistent. So he practiced consistency. So I believe that when our children see that that's a good teaching moment for them to see that and he'll do his best to make it happen no matter what. So that's the, one of the biggest things when it comes to consistency, that he tries his best to follow through with everything that he promises them and he wants them to see that anything is possible.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, thank you both for joining us today and sharing a little bit happy father's day. And I celebrate with you although far, um, I, I celebrate with you and I wish you all the best. And I just want to say that, uh, thank you just for being a father and for being a father who is not only responsible, but present a father who is loving a father who is putting forth, um, in investing as much as yourself as you possibly can in order to not only raise your children, but also put them on the path for success. So kudos to the two of you. Thank you both for joining in today. And I look forward to talking with you again real soon
Speaker 3:With you for having us. Definitely.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. You're welcome. Take care. You too. I know my friends and I thank them for their contribution to this show. Thank you guys. One guest who was unfortunately unable to join me today was my father. Although he was not able to join me. I want to take a few moments to honor him. Now, my interesting character, he is, he definitely is not a perfect person, but he has a great heart. And he has been in my life all of my life. And he has done some amazing things to connect and build our relationship over the years, growing up, my father and I did not live in the same home. He lived in a different state after some point in time. And I lived in New Jersey and grew up in New Jersey. But although we were apart, my father did all that he needed to do in order to develop and maintain a relationship with me. He would visit me of course, but he also would do things like write letters and write these, you know, heartwarming, you know, even mushy cards, right? You know, the kind of cars that fathers, you know, try to make you cry cards. And he would, you know, we would have these long conversations on the phone and he was always interested in what was going on with me. So we would be on the phone for hours and just talking and I would just be pouring out and just telling him every, every little detail about what's going on in my life. And we talked often when we were apart, when I was a child, he, you know, would of course the gifts and all that, but he would never fail to make sure that I knew that he loved me and that he was there for me in anything that I needed. He was there. And it was true. My relationship with my father developed so deeply to where I always considered myself to be a father, a father, girl, you know, daddy's girl as they call it. And over the years, um, I began to, you know, move around as I grew older. And, uh, eventually we were able to get in the same state, but my relationship with my father never broke. It was always close all the years of my life. Even to this day, he is the one man that I trust the most. And he is someone who he'll tell you the truth. So the conversations we have, he's told me, you know, things that there are times I'm like, you know, I don't want to hear that. I don't want you to tell me that that's, you know, but he'll tell, you know, he'll tell the truth. He's a God-fearing man. So we have good conversations and we don't always agree, or you're always agreeing, trust me, we don't always agree. But even when we don't agree, what's left is me knowing that he loves me no matter what, even when I make mistakes, he was always there to love me. Never, you know, blamed me or he never raided or any of that, even when I would make mistakes, you know, as I'm growing and learning and he would always just be there. And he, whenever we were around each other, he would hug and he would just, you know, the affection was always there. So I, I did not feel like my dad was not present. He always was present, even though he may not have been physically present. And so I honor my dad today because he did all that he knew to do in order to develop a relationship with me, his first born. And I so appreciate the sacrifices that he made and all the work that he put in to make sure that not only I knew that he loved me, but that he showed it. It wasn't just spoken, but it was in what he did. And even to this day, I can pick up the phone and my dad would answer and he would talk to me and I would talk to him and I can tell my dad anything. I literally, to this day still tell my dad everything. It doesn't matter. How, how good, how bad, how ugly, how, whatever I can tell him anything. And he was, he's always there not only to listen, but he also gives some wisdom in that as well. And if I don't want his wisdom, he still gives it. Um, even if, uh, I don't ask, he always offers into listen to him. Sometimes tell his stories of him growing up. And, and I, I gained, I gained a better understanding of who he is now based on all of the, all the stories that he's told over the years. So anyway to you, that thank you for being you. Thank you for loving me and always being there for me. Happy father's day. Can you agree that fathers are awesome? Well, if you agree with me, that fathers are awesome. Be sure to help the fathers in your life reach their awesome potential. I enjoy thinking and talking about fathers. As we celebrate all across the nation today saying happy father's day to one another and showing happy father's day to the loved ones in your life by giving gifts and words of expression of love. Continue to do that throughout the year. If you enjoy this episode, write a review to share your thoughts, share this podcast with others and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. To keep up with this show, connect with me through email, then messages to S S inspired cast at Gmail that com S S inspired cast at Gmail. That com until next time, Sunday, listeners, be sure to live.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Sundays with Chevelle subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts and be sure to tune in next time for another social work inspired episode. Bye-bye.