SUNDAYS WITH SHAVEL
SUNDAYS WITH SHAVEL
Episode 3: How to Choose the Right Clinical Supervisor
Are you a master social worker seeking to become a licensed clinical social worker? Do you need ideas on choosing the right clinical supervisor? Do you need advice on what to do once supervision begins? In this episode, a definition and perspective on clinical supervision is offered along with a few insightful ideas on how to choose a supervisor that is right for you. Licensed clinical social work supervisor, Dr. Mia M. Kirby, joins the show to discuss what seeking social workers need to know about choosing a clinical supervisor and what to do once supervision begins. Listen for ideas and advice to act toward achieving your long-term professional goals as a social work practitioner. Enjoy the show!
Helpful Resources
14 Qualities and Actions of Effective Therapists: https://socialworksupervisor.com/14-qualities-actions-effective-therapists/
ASWB Exam Candidate Handbook: https://www.aswb.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Candidate-handbook-06-2021.pdf
Clinical Supervision and Professional Development of the Substance Abuse Counselor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64848/
Clinical Supervision Planner: https://thinkinpossibilities.com/product/clinical-supervision-planner-notebook-for-social-work-supervisees/
Handbook of Clinical Social Work Supervision: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Clinical-Social-Work-Supervision-ebook/dp/B00ABL5LHA
Peer Supervision and Clinical Supervision Groups Provide Therapists with a Safe Harbor and Forum for Professional Development: https://sohnen-moe.com/articles/peer-supervision-and-clinical-supervision-groups/
Proven Topics for Growth in Clinical Supervision: https://www.thehowtosocialworker.com/topics-clinical-supervision/
Real World Clinical Social Work: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/real-world-clinical-social-work-danna-r-bodenheimer/1123156945
Reflect, Discuss, Develop: The Value of Supervision: https://www.hcpc-uk.org/news-and-events/blog/2019/reflect-discuss-develop-the-value-of-supervision/
Twelve Tips for Effective Clinical Supervision Based on a Narrative Literature Review and Expert Opinion: https://www.health.qld.gov.au/CC_FINAL?a=159993
Your First Supervisor – Finding Your Alice: https://www.socialworker.com/feature-articles/practice/your-first-supervisor-finding-your-alice/
Credits
Host: Dr. Sherece Shavel
Theme Narration: Ronald Coaxum
Guest: Dr. Mia M. Kirby, LCSW-S, contact by website: https://www.miamkirby.com/
Do you have a question you want answered in a future show? Do you have topic ideas or feedback to support creation of future shows? Would you like to be a guest?
Connect with me through email. Send messages to: ssinspiredcast@gmail.com
Welcome to Sundays with Shavel a social work inspired podcast with creator and host Dr. Sharif Chevelle. This is a bi-monthly show where each episode aims to inspire topics relevant to social work practice, growing forward, living on purpose and so much more. Thank you for tuning in, enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Greetings Sunday listeners. I am your host, Dr. Sherece Shavel. Thank you for tuning in welcome to episode three, how to choose the right clinical supervisor as MSW students near the end of their academic journey. The topic of license share becomes more and more a topic of concern, deciding whether to pursue licensure when to pursue licensure, the benefits of licensure and the cost of acquiring and maintaining licensure are just the basic matters of concern. Master level, social workers have the option of acquiring a nonclinical license or a clinical license. And the decision is largely based on the career goals of that particular practitioner. For those who are certain, their professional future includes having a clinical license. The process of meeting requirements is likely to begin before completing an MSW program by registering for, and taking the master's examination and once taken and passed. The process continues with clinical supervision, satisfying clinical supervision requirements is a major milestone on the road to becoming a licensed clinical social worker. This step, along with the costs, often as the reason masters, social workers, postpone pursuit of clinical licensure until some later point in their career, regardless of when clinical supervision begins, it is important to be intentional about choosing a clinical supervisor and engaging in the clinical supervision process. So what is meant by clinical supervision? Well, according to Dr. Carlton Munson author of the handbook of clinical social work supervision, clinical supervision is an interactional process in which a supervisor has been assigned or designated to assist in and direct the practice of supervisees and the areas of teaching administration and helping a definition was offered by Priya Martin and colleagues suggesting that clinical supervision is a formal process of professional support and learning, which enables individual practitioners to develop knowledge and competence that is acknowledged to be a lifelong process. And from the perspective offered by SAMHSA clinical supervision is a disciplined tutorial process where in principles are transformed into practical skills, given specific attention to administration, evaluative clinical and supportive efforts. It is an intervention provided by a senior member of a profession to way more junior member in the context of an evaluative relationship that extends over time and has the simultaneous purpose of enhancing the professional functioning of the more junior person by monitoring the quality of professional services offered and serving as a gatekeeper of those who are entering into the social work profession. Now, additionally noted by SAMHSA is that clinical supervision is a social influence process. So to put it all more plainly clear, and of course supervision is the mechanism to take a master social worker to the next level on the professional credentials ladder. It is the established means by which acceptable growth is to happen to merit a certain level of independence as a professional practitioner and the definitions I just shared set something about the way supervision is facilitated. According to those definitions, it is an interactional, formal, disciplined, tutorial, social influence process. And so understanding what this means is necessary for preparing yourself for the search to choose a clinical supervisor. You also need to be clear about your own needs and wants as a developing practitioner. So when you begin to search for a supervisor, it is important to keep in mind a definition or a perspective on clinical supervision, perhaps similar to what I just shared in order to help guide your decision-making. I encourage you to be sure to explore and consider as many persons as possible. Here are five basic questions to ask yourself while completing the search. Is this a person I can affiliate myself for an extended period of time to be a mutual partner in my growth? Is this a person I can take seriously? And who will care about my own professional future? Is this person dependable, accessible, available, and responsive? Is there an established structure to the way this person handles supervision? And this is important because you certainly don't want to hit or miss or all over the place or catch me. If you can fly by the seat of my pants, kind of way of experience in supervision. You don't want that as a supervisee. So it's important for you to understand that person's established structure of handling supervision, and it's also important to ask, is this a person I can willingly allow to instruct me and correct me? Can I willingly embrace his or her influence on my professional development for an extended period of time? These are just a few questions to get you started on deciding who you want to be your clinical supervisor, understanding what you need and want is key to asking the right questions and getting answers to your questions helps you understand the kind of supervision experience you might receive. That is important because the quality of your practice depends on a successful yet rewarding supervision experience. Therefore knowing how to choose the right clinical supervisor is important. My guest today, Dr. Mia Kirby knows all about this topic. Dr. Kirby is a licensed clinical social work supervisor, who is not only familiar with the process of completing clinical requirements, but she knows how to facilitate clinical supervision. It was exciting for me to have Dr. Kirby join me to offer her perspective on choosing a clinical supervisor. Our conversation was previously recorded. And as you know, I love stories. So I had to ask Dr. Kirby how she got started as a social worker. So after hearing that response, she shares what social workers should know when searching for a clinical supervisor state soon to hear Dr. Kirby's advice. And I will meet you at the conclusion of the conversation
Speaker 3:I'm well, how are you? Good.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you. I am so excited to hear what you have to say to our listeners today on the topic of clinical supervision, but first things first I have to ask you, how did you spend your 4th of July holiday?
Speaker 3:How did I spend my 4th of July holiday? What did I do? I don't even remember. I have kids. Um, so, you know, I, I tend to keep it low key with them. Um, just let them swim. What happened actually, we were busy on Juneteenth, um, and didn't get an opportunity to celebrate the way I wanted to. So I told them 4th of July was June team do over June teeth do over. We, um, just kind of, you know, swam with the kids, had a little barbecue, um, just, you know, just the family and that's how we kind of keep it. And we didn't even go look at fireworks this year that the kids said they were fine. So I'm like, well, that's what we did. We just sit around, you know, relax.
Speaker 2:What matters is that? You enjoyed yourself. Did you enjoy yourself or your holiday?
Speaker 3:I did. I did. I did.
Speaker 2:Awesome. That's what matters? Well, today you have joined me to talk a little bit about clinical supervision. You got some tips that you want to share with us, but before we start talking about this, I have to ask you, and I ask everyone this particularly social workers, I really need to know how you started. How did you become a social worker? Let's start there and then we can transition to talk about clinical supervision afterwards, but I really, I really need to know how you started journey of becoming a social
Speaker 3:Worker. I think my story is a wild ride. Um, so I, I think I really have to kind of go back to almost high school, um, and say that I was always interested in psychology and sociology. Um, early on, like in high school, those things kind of always interest me. I'm even thinking back in seventh grade, we had to do a science experiment and I convinced my teacher, let me do a social science experiment because I don't like science. I ended up doing a social science experiment in the seventh grade. So I knew this was the area I was going towards early on. Um, but yeah, so I majored in psychology. I thought I was going to be a psychiatrist until I sent them pre-med classes, shout out to Xavier university of Louisiana, my Alma mater. But yeah, those science classes, no, ma'am first semester I called my parents and I was like, that's a wrap. I'm not, I can't do this. Wow.
Speaker 2:Where are they? Where are they that difficult? Well,
Speaker 3:Xavier is, um, the number one institution for sending black pharmacists to pharmacy school and graduating black pharmacists. Um, it has a pharmacy school. Um, it's the top pre-med, uh, in the nation for HBCU. So to say that you're gonna, you know, if you want to be a psychiatrist and you're going to one of the top schools for pre-medicine, it's tough. You know, it was these kids that were doing that are like actual doctors now, like my friends that I met there and I'm like, no, that's that wasn't for me. I barely could memorize the periodic table. I was like, that's that? I can't. So, um, but yeah, no, I so wanting to help people and work in the arena of mental health and, um, actually went down the road of education and became an education minor. And I ended up teaching seventh grade after I graduated college, I taught seventh grade English and it was horrible. It was like the worst experience of my life. Like this kid threw a dictionary at me and I sat there and was like, I can't do this, but right hard for the children. I recognize there was like troubles that they were going through. That's why they were coming to school and behaving the way they were. Um, and you know, I wanted to still work in that arena. So it just so happened that one day a social worker, it was career day at the school. And so they had different speakers in your classroom. And a social worker was speaking in my classroom. My students were not paying attention at all, but I was fully engaged and she was talking about her work as a social worker with the red cross and just kind of the things that social workers do. And I was really inspired. And so right then I decided, you know, I'm going to go get my MSW. And so I typed my letter of resignation and left pretty much like two weeks later, I stayed, you know, until Christmas break now. Wow. Right on the spot, huh. Right on the spot. This is what I'm going to do. And so, um, yeah, so I started that following fall in, um, at Southern university of new Orleans, um, in their MSW program. And it's an excellent MSW program at HBCU. And, um, I completed my first year. It was great. I loved it. I ended up doing, um, school, social work as my internship. And that's where it connected for me the part where I was like, these kids need help. But as a teacher, I can't help them. And working as a school social worker, I was like, this is awesome. Like, I really love this. Like I want to help these children at home. And so, um, yeah, that, that kind of locked me in well, um, hurricane Katrina came to new Orleans. Um, it actually hits, we had a second year orientation. I went to second year orientation, um, went and hung out with my friends afterwards and I feel like the hurricane hit a couple of days later. Um, and that was that, you know, so, um, I evacuated to Houston prior to the hurricane hitting and, um, I ended up getting engaged and, um, my husband and I decided that we would go to school together because he was in pharmacy school. So we ended up, uh, going to the university of Maryland and at the university of Maryland, uh, I finished my MSW program and yeah, it was great. I ended up living in Baltimore for six years and working. Um, I worked in foster care. I worked in a level five schools, level five schools are like alternative schools for children that, um, are not able to attend traditional school. And then from, from there, I went to my favorite job, which is working in juvenile detention with kids that were waved down from adult jail, uh, to detention while they waited trials or a way that their next steps. And so I worked there for quite some time until we moved here to Dallas. So yeah. A long windy road. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, that's, that seems to be the norm for social workers in terms of how we process through becoming social workers. So after you received your master's degree, what led you to social
Speaker 3:Work? Right. So at Maryland, um, they actually had tracks that you had to decide that you wanted to be on. And so, um, I chose the clinical track because again, with the heart of thinking about psychiatry and psychology and all of that, I knew eventually I was going to have some, some type of private practice or pursue something in the realm of private practice. So I knew clinical was the way to go. So yeah, I, I chose the jobs I chose to get supervised for clinical work because I knew I was going to be clinical the whole time.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you for sharing that. It sounds like you knew exactly what you wanted to do as you were moving through the process of going to school and working. It's not like you already knew the direction that you were going.
Speaker 3:Right. I definitely did. I think the more I took the classes, the more I was involved, um, with school, I just was like, this is what I need to do. This is what I want to do. I want to help kids. Um, my, so my focus was children and family. So I typically would work with, um, adolescents and their families. Um, but adolescents that have, you know, clinical diagnoses. So I'm really helping them manage their mental health challenges and also helping their family cope with a child with mental health challenges. I felt like that was really like my, my niche area, where I was like, this is where I'm supposed to be. Like, I love it. I really have a heart for children. And I have a heart for children who are misunderstood. You know, like when people say, you know, that kid is bad and I'm like, yeah, but you know, how did they get in that situation? Is there some poor parenting? Is there, uh, a home environment that's not supportive? Is there a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated? Like, I really love that population.
Speaker 2:I think that in some way, working with that population really helps to solidify who you are as a social worker in terms of the skills and the techniques and the strategies that you need to master. And you really need to be able to be flexible, be patient, but also be competent in your behaviors, that particular population. It is so critical. It's so critical to function and to perform as a competent, confident, because you definitely have to be confident to work with that population. So kudos to you. Yes.
Speaker 3:I definitely think work. Let me tell you what working with kids in jail is like trial by fire. I get really what, and then, you know, I'm coming from a different background too, you know, so it's not like, I mean, I knew kids that went to jail in school and everything, but it's not like I had a high exposure to it either. So I'm coming from like a different background and meeting children who live completely different lifestyles than I have been exposed to. And that was, you know, a huge lag. The first couple of weeks I was crying. Like I can't do this. I was trying to adopt all the kids. I was telling my, how we can just, I know he's 16. Yeah. Like my heart bled. Cause I was just like, you know, I really, even when I'm teaching, I'm trying to convey that, you know, a lot majority of these children are victims of, you know, societal circumstances that have put their families into these positions. You know, that's the tough part though, because even though I can work with them and help them get to their better place, I'd send them right on back to that neighborhood, that environment, that family. And that was, that was the biggest challenge. But yeah, that population is a trial by fire. You are going to get your clinical skills up that working with that population, for sure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I am a witness witness working with that population. It definitely has not, it's not easy and it definitely pulls at your heart strings and it's a daily poll, um, at your heart strings to work with that population in the circumstances, in the predicament that they're in, it is really tough, but also at the same time, you still have to keep your professional boundaries and you have to make sure that you are performing your work in an objective manner and that you are doing what, what is necessary for them to be able to have healthy futures, right? Because when they're in that particular situation, particularly in a setting such as a jail or a home even, or any kind of rehabilitative slash correctional settings, you know, they are, they're there for a reason, but you have their attention, right. And to capture their attention requires a lot of skill. Our, as a lot of dedication and commitment and technique and strategy requires a lot to capture their attention, but then to capture their attention and then their desire, their motivation, their drive towards something that essentially is channeling their energy towards a more positive direction is also that's, that's something else. That's also another set of skills and techniques commitment to do
Speaker 3:To that point. It's amazing. Um, so in the time that I worked there, I did have, you know, the, of course this is a challenging population. And so you don't really get oftentimes where people come back and say something worked. But I did have two young men who we were able to work together for quite some time and get through their, you know, time and their after placements and all of that. And I kept working with them even after placements. And let me tell you what I, I was, I couldn't, I was blown away. Like both of them on two different occasions found me at work, like came to me later when time had passed and said, you know, I'm working now. I have a family I'm married. Thank you so much. You know, the things you said, and it was like, oh my gosh, the things I said touched you so much that you were able to get it together and not be doing these behaviors anymore. And I've had that happen twice, which, you know, most other social workers may have, it happened more frequently, but this population it's very rare because they end up, you know, repeat offenders. So to have like two people come to me and say that it just, that felt good, you know, to know that they, whatever I said to them and the things that we did, it mattered, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very rewarding. Yes. So what I love about what you're doing now as a licensed clinical social worker, you're a licensed clinical social worker, but as supervisor. Yeah. Yeah. And so what I love, what you're doing now is you're helping up and coming social workers have to really be able to do the work that you were doing. Be able to reform advanced level skill and to be able to do it in a manner that they are making a difference. They are changing the lives of the individuals that they are working with, but there is a process that they have to go through in order to get to that, to that place. So after social workers get that graduate level degree, that master's degree, there are other milestones that we need to meet in order to, to practice from a clinical perspective. Can you talk about some of the milestones or some of the things that social workers after graduating are looking to become licensed clinical social workers? What is it that they need to be doing after graduating, in order for them to be in a position where they can become a licensed clinical social worker?
Speaker 3:Right? So after you graduated, after you get your MSW and you can actually register for the exam before you get your MSW in your last semester, but you are going to sit for the LMSW exam. And so I highly recommend if anyone is going to sit for that exam, they have practice, um, tests, books they have, there are people that sell test classes have a test class is better for you. I am on the cheap side. So are Google, Google, Google, and found questions and would just test themselves that way. And I found the practice books, you can find in the library too. So that's another, you know, free 99. I did not like to spend money. So I did that. Um, so yeah, so you sit for that test and I recommend doing it, like I said, either in your last semester or right when you graduate, because the information is still fresh in your head, you've taken your classes. And so you still kind of have a working knowledge of what you learned in class. So after you get your LMSW license, you can then begin supervision. So some people are able to get supervision at work. If you're able to get supervision at work, you get it from an LCSW S which is a licensed clinical social worker supervisor. And you can get the hours from that person. Now I've heard people say, I meet with my supervisor. That is not the same. This person needs to have the LCSW S license in order to be considered a clinical supervisor. So there's that. So if you're doing that at work, that's fine. And you can contract with that person. And it's the same contract, whether the person works with you or not. Now, if the person does not work with you and you are paying someone outside of your job to meet with, um, you sign a contract with them, but you also sign a contract that says, or you should be signing some type of document that allows your supervisor at work to know that you're meeting with an outside entity that doesn't work with you because you're going to be sharing information about your job and that in a way that breaks confidentiality. So essentially
Speaker 2:Don't assume that because you're in an agency where there are a licensed clinical social workers, that you will be able to use the individuals in that particular agency to complete your supervision requirements.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so there's that, um, because again, like they have to have the, the delineation and you have to sign the contract. There has to be a contract. When I say contract, there's a state document that says, I am starting supervision with this person on this day, we're going to meet regularly. Um, and this is our contract. So, um, so there's that. So just meeting with your boss at work, um, is not the same because you have to sign a contract and they have to be a clinical supervisor. So that's kind of the first steps. Um, and once you've signed your contracts and you've agreed to begin working with your supervisor, you will meet with them for roughly 100 hours in 3000 working hours. So when I've calculated 3000 working hours, that's about 18 months, I believe so a year and a half, and you would meet with them for a hundred hours. The a hundred hours can be an individual supervision or group supervision. And groups of revision can be any more than two people. So in, in supervision, and I will probably talk about that in detail, but in supervision, there's certain things that you were going to talk about with your supervisor as it pertains to your job. But you might also talk a little bit about your personal life as it pertains to your job. And during that time, um, you should be getting advised on what you're doing. But one thing supervision is not supervision is not practice for the next exam. So that's something that you definitely, if you have a supervisor that's just giving you exam questions, that's not what you're looking for. You need supervision in the sense of, you need to talk about what you're doing at your job.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. That's a good point. Um, cause you don't want to spend all of those hours working on trying to pass that next exam, which is B, which is the advanced clinical exam. You don't want to spend your supervision doing that. And you want to spend your supervision honing in on those skills and those techniques in order to be credible at the advanced clinical
Speaker 3:Level. Absolutely. Absolutely. So in essence, um, as we just were talking about, when you finish the a hundred hours, then you can submit your documents to the state and you take your next exam, which is the LCSW or the licensed clinical social worker exam. And again, great time to go pay for a class, get a book or something like that in preparation for that exam. Once you take that exam and you pass it, you submit your paperwork and your money to the state and you are a licensed clinical social worker.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about costs because I know there are costs involved in this.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:Of course we know there is a cost when it comes to the LMSW, then as well, applying for that credential, there's a cost there. And then there's also a cost or the supervision that you will need from the time you receive your LMSW to the time you are able to sit for the LCSW exam. Right? Right.
Speaker 3:So the cost for supervision varies. Um, people charge different rates expect to pay. If you are paying someone outside of your job, let me back up. So one rule from the state is you, if you are getting supervision at some, by someone at your job, they cannot charge you. So if Sally Sue works at your job, and even if you guys are colleagues and she's like, I have this side business, you know, you can pay me on the side. You cannot, they can give it to you for free, but you can not charge people you work with. So there's that. So backing up to now, when you are paying for someone that you either don't work with or, or whatever the case, um, that person can charge the going rate for actual mental health therapy, because some people have private practices. And so if you're taking up an hour of their time, that's an hour, they would have seen a private practice clients. So there are some supervisors that charge the same rate. You know, if their private practice is$150 an hour, their supervision rate is$150 an hour. Not saying that's what everyone charges, but you know, it varies on, um, what that person charges for their regular practice or just whatever skills they believe they have. Um, some people have advanced knowledge and certification in certain therapies. And so that would bring their rate higher than, you know.
Speaker 2:So when you talk about the costs or supervision and it's from someone who's outside of your agency, what's the range. I
Speaker 3:Would say anywhere I've seen as low as 40 or$50 an hour to$300 an hour. Okay. So
Speaker 2:How would a social worker then think about budgeting for supervision?
Speaker 3:So here's another thing, um, you can at minimum do, when you start your supervision contact at the very minimum, your contact is two months, two hours a month with your supervisor and at the maximum it's 10 hours a month with your supervisor. So I see my individual supervisees once a week and you really wouldn't see anyone every day. Um, you might, you could possibly see them twice if there's like an emergency that you really need some assistance with, but the going is about once a week.
Speaker 2:So they should budget according to, so they
Speaker 3:Should budget according to about once a week. Um, and then also, you know, look at what you can afford. Um, I have someone that's going to take a little bit longer because that's what they can afford. So we will see each other twice a month instead of once a week. And that might take a little longer, but if that's what they can afford, that's what they can afford. Okay.
Speaker 2:So now that a person has gotten to a place to where they are needing to find a supervisor, let's say they don't have anyone in their agency that they can call on to supervise them. What are some tips a social worker should be considering when they are trying to find that right? Clinical supervisor? Well,
Speaker 3:I think a clinical supervisor is also like finding a therapist. So you have to find someone that is the right fit for you, for what your needs are. I think it's important to firstly, you know, financially that's really important. I think that should be your first thing. You should not be going broke, trying to get supervision. Um, look at, you know, the rates that people have and how that might work with your budget. That's I think where you should start moving forward, you should also look at their areas of expertise. Are there areas of knowledge, does that align with your actual job or the job that you are seeking in the future? So, um, say, say you are a school social worker, but you want to be a medical social worker. And there's some things that medical, social workers are doing that you want to learn more about. Maybe then you find someone that specializes in, in medical social work, or that was their work experience. So you do not have to find someone that works the same kind of job as you, but it definitely helps because they understand a bit more what you do. So for example, like I shared my, um, experience has been with children. That doesn't mean I can't work with someone that works in gerontology. However, some of the approaches and the theories and concepts that they might use, and I may not be familiar with because that wasn't my background. So you want to look at that also, you do want to know what kind of modalities are they familiar with? What theories of practice do they use? If this person is specialized, say, you want to learn something new and they have a specialty. You want to know more about that specialty? Did they get a certification? Did they just learn it at a conference? Or, you know, are they have they been practicing and researching this, um, for some time now? So I think those are kind of the major things is just looking at how is this person going to pour into you? What you need to get to your next level, whatever that next level may be. So I always ask my supervisees, what are their career goals? I want to know about what you currently do, but I want to know your career goals because I want to know how I can help facilitate getting you towards where you want to go.
Speaker 2:All right. So now this person is receiving supervision. They found that right supervisor for them. What should they be thinking about while they are engaged in supervision? Yes. Are there any do's and don'ts
Speaker 3:Number one, do number one, do this is, this is number one most important. All right. Document your supervision, please. I keep a log of every time I met with my supervisee just the little day date time. And then I have an actual note that looks similar to our clinical notes, except bridge, just to supervision. We talk about what we talked about, what our goals were. I give homework. So I put the homework assignment, I sign it, I send it to my supervisees. They sign it, they send it back to me. I tell them to keep their own notes, key notes that you were in supervision. And the reason why I say this is because I was audited when I went for my LCSW and my supervisor and I in my very first supervision. Cause I switched jobs and you can switch supervisors. Um, so I switched jobs and my first supervisor did not keep notes nor did I. And so at the last minute, when I was ready to go take my exam, I had to go make up. I had to pay somebody and make up about 25 hours.
Speaker 2:I can't it imagine the horror.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm ready take the exam. Like I'm submitting my document and I have to go back and pay somebody for 25 hours. And I was just so I felt so defeated. So learn from my mistake document. Every time you saw your supervisor, you know, if your supervisor doesn't give notes, you write the note and sign it and have them sign it to have the documentation that you've completed your hundred hours. That's why I say that's number one. All right. All right. Number two. What's number two, number two. Um, always gauge. Are you learning? Are you learning? And are you growing as a clinician while supervision is a time where you can be friendly and talk and, and you know, sometimes, and I allow my supervisees an opportunity to kind of vent because you know, sometimes you don't have someone to talk to about what's going on at work, but we keep the venting at a minimum. So your supervision session is not a session where I'm going to dump all my problems. And I don't like so-and-so and this one ate my yogurt. Like that's not what your supervision is for to talk about your, you know, your grievances at work. So you actually want to talk about your cases. So you, if you feel like you're walking away and you haven't thoroughly examined your cases and troubles that you might be having doing some troubleshooting or even asking questions, um, and exploring further, some things you don't know, you need to gauge that and, and recognize, okay, either we have to turn this around in the supervision or maybe I need a different supervisor, um, because you can switch supervisors number the read, let's do it. I think this kind of connects to my next one, but I think it's really important not to be afraid to ask questions, um, not be afraid to, okay. Sometimes we believe that we know everything in the work that we're doing. Um, it's okay to ask questions or, or check in and make sure you're doing the right thing, because what you don't want to do is create a harmful situation for your client, because you did not confirm if whatever it is you were doing was the right thing to do. And I think that's really, really important. I know like I'll ask my supervisor. He's like, how are your cases fine? I'm like, oh, you're not having any trouble. You cannot beat a social worker and have an entire week's worth of work and not have no trouble. I don't believe you. So make sure that you are really thoroughly checking in. Even if it's something you think, you know, because you're in supervision for a reason, you're not quite where you need to be. And so you need to be checking in with someone else. So don't be nervous, you know, ask any question because it really could, um, it could save your client from any harm or anything like that. It could save your job. Um, you know, so that's really, really important as well.
Speaker 2:I think that's really good advice because being a social worker, we have to know when it's okay for us to be vulnerable when you're in supervision, you know, you may be uncomfortable at times, but that's okay. That's part of the growth process, but you also have to allow yourself to be vulnerable enough to embrace the teaching moments. And then you also have to remain teachable. Absolutely supervision. Is that place for you to almost like let your hair down and put your feet up and say, listen, I am trying to get to that next level. Helped me to see what I can't see. Right? Um, but you have to be able to honestly, openly willingly put yourself out there or your supervisor so that they can help you help shape you and help grow. You have, if you choose to be restraint and supervision, then you're going to block your ability to grow and to grow as much as you need to grow during that supervision process, allow yourself to be vulnerable, allow yourself to be uncomfortable at times. And I think this is also why it's important and I'm, and I'm going to, I'm going to give the microphone back to you in a second.[inaudible] You know, this is why it's important to be selective in who you choose as supervisor. Absolutely. Anybody just won't. Do you want to make sure that you're taking the time to bet people enough to know if they are going to serve you well through your process of being a supervisee,
Speaker 3:Right? Well, and, and the person you really have to trust them, because like I said, you got to, you're not going to do a hundred hours without talking about your own personal life. You're just not. And, and the work we do brings out traumas and triggers for all of us. And that's the space to share it in supervision too, because then your supervisor could recommend next step. Now I will say, your supervisor is not your therapist. You're not going to supervision for therapy. However, if one of my supervisees was triggered at work, I want to know so that I can say, Hey, here's some resources. This is what I want you to tap into. And I'm going to be like a second person to check in with them. Did you go to therapy about that? Did you talk to someone? Did you work through that? And that's why it's really, really important that you trust them the same way you would trust the therapist, because you're going to talk about, you know, your personal life because your personal life does come into play in the work we do. It definitely does.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Number four,
Speaker 3:Number four, I think so. Some supervisors want to do group supervision. I really think people need to also recognize the power of group supervision and learning and networking. You never know you meet this person in group supervision. And next thing you know, they're the hiring manager at the place you want to work at. So it's really a good idea. You know, you're going to learn from people, but I I'll get people to come. So I give'em free consultation. And so I'll get people to come to consultation. I'll say, oh, I don't know if I want to do group. And I'm like, you definitely need to do group. You need to learn from other people. Um, you need to hear about other people's experiences. Your job is not going to be your last stop. I cause if you're a social worker and you're listening to this, the job you are right now is not your last stop because we move around
Speaker 2:Is true.
Speaker 3:What other people do because you might end up doing it. So
Speaker 2:I know about moving around anyway, number five, we've got a number five.
Speaker 3:I think this is, is an important one. If your supervisor is not consulting the DSM and you are not consulting the DSM and supervision, that's a problem. We need to be using the DSM. So I tell my supervisor some kind of crazy way I found where I could download the VSM. So I have mine in PDF.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. That is available. Oh,
Speaker 3:So I tell my supervisees, you know, make sure you have the DSM and we go through it. Like we go through it, we practice. So the way I'm set myself up is we talk about their cases. But then we also go through practice cases and scenarios so that we can discuss, um, you know, if my supervisee has a client that's depressed, then we can look up depressions and we can talk about all of that and look in the DSM. Then I start looking at case studies of different populations, because I want them to see how this looks in different populations. So you work with kids, let's look at it with elderly or you work with adults, let's look at it with children. So you should definitely be examining the DSM as far as your cases, as far as other cases, when you're there. Because again, going back to what I said, it's a learning experience. So if your supervisor has not cracked the DSM, that that's not the supervisor for you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then if you, if you're someone who's intimidated by that DSM, if you're intimidated by that DSM, you're going to probably appreciate that. Supervisor was not going to open up that DSM, but, but that's when the alarm bells should be sounding. Absolutely. Because the DSM, it's a reference tool for you, but you need to know how to use that reference tool and you need to know how to use it well. Um, and so if you are intimidated by it and you are choosing not to want to open it up because you are intimidated by it, then you can't be who you need to be as an, as a clinical social
Speaker 3:Worker. Right. Cause you have to, you know, you're not in private practice and clinical social work practice. If you become like an agency director or something like that, you're not going to just get a whole bunch of adjustment disorders. You're going to have to actually dig deep and learn. And, and then it it's something. That's another thing I think supervisors need to note that when supervision is over. So I guess it's my number six. When supervision is over, you still don't know everything. You still do not know everything. And you are still gonna open that book.
Speaker 2:I tell my students, you will never get to a place as a social worker where you know, everything that you have learned at all, it's not possible. You will be learning from now until the day you decide you no longer want to be a social worker. You will never get to a place to where you have arrived, right? And so now you really need to set yourself up mentally, emotionally to understand that you are going to remain on this path of learning from now, until you decide you no longer want to be a social worker, but there are these, you know, ways of evolving in terms of your growth that you're wanting to make sure that you're doing on a regular basis. But these milestones such as getting to a place to where you can be a clinical social worker, you have to go through[inaudible] growth in order to do that. And part of that is learning how to, you know, diagnose and doing effectively do it, do it effectively and responsibly
Speaker 3:As a clinical social worker. That is your job. That's what you're going to be doing. So if you're coming into clinical social work and you are intimidated by the DSM, it's time to move past that intimidation, crack it open, start reading, just start reading. That's all I got to do. I have a little fun story. How I was introduced to the DSM is when I was in undergrad as a psychology major, my psychology clinical psychology professor was the granddaughter of web Dubois. And she was our clinical psychology professor. And let me tell you what her exams were, honey. We had six vignettes page, long vignette. And you had to do that whole diagnosis, that one through five and justify. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, and this was, that's
Speaker 2:Pretty, I've got to say that's pretty DSM-V you talking about[inaudible] Was DSM-IV or yeah. So that's what you're talking about. Students are not learning that right now, though,
Speaker 3:We had three hours, you had three hours for little exam. I had put my little tablets, you know, and that's how I had them down with it. But it, it, it took that away from me where I wasn't afraid anymore because I really had to dig down deep and get into it and learn it and understand it. And so I'm taking that same approach, um, from Dr. Dubois and I'm do the same thing with my, my supervisees. I'll give them a case study and send me exactly what it is. One through five, tell me everything, you know, and why did you come up with that and justify it? That's the kind of thing you need to be doing in supervision because when you are a clinical supervisor, that's your job. You will be diagnosing. If you're in private practice, if you work at an agency, you will be diagnosing. And not only will you be diagnosing, you are billing on insurance, which means now you are telling, you know, medical providers, this person has such a sow disorder and you need to justify that. And so that's why you need to know it because you have to be able to stand on. Yes, I know this person has XYZ disorder because you know, my reasoning, so you really do need to get into the DSM. Don't be afraid. It's just,
Speaker 2:All right. So do you have any more tips,
Speaker 3:Tips? I think that that was it and have fun, you know, have fun in supervision. I feel like I come off hard, but I'm, I'm lighthearted and really fun. Uh, try to make it interesting and very conversational and easygoing. So you don't want it to feel too stiff because you will be forming a relationship with this person for a year and a half.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Those are great tips. And I really appreciate what you have shared. I am confident that a listener is going to need all of what you just said. So thank you so much for sharing those tips before you depart, you have to share with our listeners all about your services,
Speaker 3:Right? So, um, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to share. So I provide clinical supervision. Um, so my practice is actually, or whoever wants to come. However, I do say that I try to specialize in working with black women who want to be clinical social workers. And the reason why I say this is because my, um, research background was in, um, black women and mental health. And what I was coming across when I was doing my research is that, um, black women felt like they wanted more black women therapist to work with. And so when I, after I did that research for my dissertation and all of that, I thought, I can't just leave this on the table. This knowledge that there are black women that want more black therapist. I'm like, I want to create a space where I'm encouraging more black therapists. So, um, I advertise myself in spaces where, um, black women meet black on the social workers are and stuff. So I do have, um, my population are recent black women graduates. So yeah, so I provide, um, individual and group supervision. And I also provide what I call self care sessions. So these are not mental health sessions, but these are more of like I was explaining, um, some social workers get to the place where they feel a little burnt out and need a place to, and need to talk about what's happening at work. It's not a supervision session. It's just you venting on what you're experiencing. And maybe I could provide you with some support and guidance in a way of encouraging you and finding avenues for self care and finding avenues for releasing the things that you take in. I'm really big on releasing what you take in as social workers you take in a lot we're taking in everyone's trauma, everyone's experienced, but how are you putting that back out? You know, and how are you coping with that? How are you getting that off of you? So I try to, um, direct my services for that in that arena. So that's specific to social workers or mental health professional.
Speaker 2:What is the name of your services? Do you have a name? Sure.
Speaker 3:I'm curvy and that's my website. Mia M kirby.com.
Speaker 2:And they can find more information in their website about your services and how they can request your services if needed.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So my website is Mia, M Kirby, M I a M K I R V y.com. And on that website, you can actually click a link to reach out and send me an email, um, and set up a consultation. All the consultations are free. So if it is your, um, if you're looking for supervision or if you're looking for self care work, you get an initial consultation about 15 to 20 minutes. Um, so that we can decide if this is a good fit for us to work together. And then from there, um, you know, we can proceed with, uh, working together. Also. I will say that my practice is strictly virtual, which, um, I started before COVID and now that we're experiencing so much virtual, it seems like people are really into it. Um, so yeah, it's virtual, which makes things a lot easier. So we can set up a meeting times around, um, folks schedules.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining me today. I am certain that my Sunday listeners are going to be appreciative of what you share today, and I hope that you will come back and share with us again sometime. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. I thank you for having me. This is great. I'm so excited. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Well, you take care and we'll talk again soon. Okay. Bye bye. Right. Listeners, what a conversation. I hope all of you, courageous, compassionate, social workers, seeking clinical licensure found Dr. Kirby's advice valuable. Of course, there is much more that can be said about choosing a clinical supervisor. One thing worthy of emphasizing is that it takes an active effort on the part of the person seeking clinical supervision to own the responsibility of choosing a supervisor and then exercising accountability throughout the supervision process. Growing to reach a higher level is certainly not a spectator sport. It requires dedicated intentional action, every step of the way, including the search for the right clinical supervisor. If you are a social worker and needing to choose a clinical supervisor, and you want to find a person that's right for you, start by asking those, you know, for recommendations, for example, an instructor, a field liaison, or a supervisor or a colleague at work. Another option is to contact your state board of social work examiners for a list of qualified practitioners in good standing. Remember, you want to consider more than one person to secure the right person for you. You also want to be clear on your needs and wants as a developing practitioner. So I challenge you today. I challenge you to consider at least five qualified persons to serve as your clinical supervisor schedule meetings with each of them to determine which one is right for you. Now, this may not be easy, but it is necessary. So take us seriously because the quality of your practice depends on it. I enjoy this. Talk on the search for a clinical supervisor and connect with Dr. Mia Kirby. If you enjoy listening to this episode, write a review to share your thoughts, share this podcast episode with others and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts to keep up with the show. Do you have a question you want answered in a future show? Do you have a topic idea or feedback to support creation of future shows or would you like to be a guest on the show? Connect with me through email, send messages to S S inspired cast@gmaildotcomssinspiredcastatgmail.com until next time Sunday listeners live on purpose.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Sundays with Chevelle subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts and be sure to tune in next time for another social work inspired episode. Goodbye.